e85

[bergen.DSM]

any news on the new gasoline.

it sould be good for turbo cars just might have to richen it up a bit. i heard it had like an octane reading of like 110.

[atc250r]

There is a pretty big thread from a few weeks back with LOTS of useful info. Check it out :wink: .

John

[DrSmile]

Unless you have a flex fuel engine (dsms don't) you will have big trouble running straight E85. It will probably trigger a cel and the car won't be able to run stoichiometric. You can run it mixed with dino gasoline but it's a crap shoot.

[1gnasty]

Unless you have a flex fuel engine (dsms don't) you will have big trouble running straight E85. It will probably trigger a cel and the car won't be able to run stoichiometric. You can run it mixed with dino gasoline but it's a crap shoot.
people with stand alone could use it?

[atc250r]

Stand alone and BIG injectors, like 1600's or more.

John

[Nate Crisman]

to run E85 and take advantage of the high octane/colder AIT your going to want to run more boost.

Injector size is going to need to be "about" double what you would need for gasoline. If you can run your 16g/20g/50trim car on 550's then like 1000cc injectors will get by.

obviously fuel control as well.

[talondsm18g]

and forget about gas mileage

[atc250r]

Gas mileage isn't the issue a lot of guys think it'll be. Look at it this way, if race gas costs $7 a gallon and you can get 20mpg on it and E85 costs $2 a gallon and you get 12mpg on it how are you losing out? Factor in the ease of filling up with E85 vs. hunting down race gas when your 100's of miles from home and then top it off with the fact that if you're on a standalone you can easily switch between an E85 map and a gasoline map. That makes E85 a great thing for all of us turbo EFI guys.

John

[gtluke]

http://www.turbomustangs.com/smf/index. ... ic=47094.0 (http://www.turbomustangs.com/smf/index.php?topic=47094.0)

1000rwhp with $2 fuel? E85 is pretty cool stuff.
« on: September 06, 2005, 10:08:38 PM »
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Turbomustangs.com along with Steve Cole Enterprises Inc (username: Karl Hungus) has completed some preliminary testing with the environmentally friendly, cheaper than 91 Octane, E85 fuel blend.
First off what is E85? E85, is a motor fuel blend of 85 percent ethanol and 15 percent gasoline to be used in flex-fuel vehicles. Ethanol is alcohol used in transportation fuels. It is a high-octane, liquid fuel, produced by the fermentation of plant sugars. In
the United States, ethanol is typically produced from corn and other grain products, although in the future it may be economically produced from other biomass resources.

Benefits:
It has a motor octane rating of 104-108, it is also quite cold to the touch. It is currently about 1.99 per gallon, while 91 Octane is approximately 3.30 a gallon. E85 is cleaner burning, emitting a lot less greenhouse gasses. It is also a renewable resource. To top it off it is made 100% within the confines of the USA.

Cons:
It takes more of this fuel to create the same energy as regular gasoline. Therefore your car will use more fuel and you will see a decrease of approximately 10-15% in fuel economy. To make big horsepower you will need more fuel pump and more injector. Many people state that the fuel is corrosive and it could have adverse effects on aluminum fuel rails, injector o-rings and fuel lines. But so far in 9 months of testing we have seen no such side effects.

Test Car
1995 Mustang GT street car, 331 cubic inch, custom twin turbo system with twin T70 p-trims w/ .58 AR, T56 tranny, solid roller: 242/236, .600 lift.
Fuel System: 3, 255lph Walbro in line fuel pumps, 160# injectors.
No alky, no nitrous, no ice on the intake, etc.

The first thing we did was add 40% fuel to the fuel map under WOT. We also added about 20% fuel in part throttle areas. We were tuning using a regular gasoline wideband air fuel ratio of 14:1 at part throttle. On the dyno the car made the best and cleanest power at 12:1.

At 6 psi of boost and 35 degrees total timing the car made 575rwhp from 6000rpm until 7500rpm. The power never fell off. We tried less timing but the car didn’t respond well and the power curve was sloppier. At 13psi and about 29 degrees of timing we made 872rwhp. At 20psi and ~24 degrees of timing we made 989rwhp.
At 30 psi and 20 degrees of timing we ended up with 1066rwhp. The fuel injectors were at 75% duty cycle at this power level. Whereas with gasoline they were at about 55%. The fuel pressure was also slightly falling off at the top. The lack of a large power increase from 20-30psi is due to the tiny exhaust housings on this street car.

In total we made 16 dyno pulls and we never heard any detonation, but we did hit fuel cut a few times during testing. The next day the spark plugs were pulled and there may have been slight detonation in 2 of the cylinders because the porcelain was speckled. However the car still runs fine. This is definitely a very impressive fuel.
I also want to point out how impressed I am with this solid roller setup. Sure it is slightly noisier than my tiny hydro cam. But you can’t argue with that sick power curve. At all boost levels the car makes peak power at 6000rpm and holds it solid until 7500rpm, I am sure it would pull up to 8000rpm no problem. Steve has also tried a larger hydraulic cam to get the same results but it just didn’t work. The cam was a comp extreme energy hyd roller: 248 @ .050 on int and exh, 114 lsa. The car also had larger 74mm turbos at the time but the power would peak at 6500rpm and drop like a rock, even with expensive valve springs. With the new small solid roller cam the car even lugs along at 1500rpm no problem and idles fine at 900rpm.

To learn more about E85 and to check for stations in your area please go here:
http://www.eere.energy.gov/afdc/e85tool ... _fuel.html (http://www.eere.energy.gov/afdc/e85toolkit/e85_fuel.html)

PLEASE CLICK HERE TO VIEW THE DYNO RUNS IN .JPG FORMAT:
http://www.turbomustangs.com/techarticl ... leruns.jpg (http://www.turbomustangs.com/techarticles/stevenew95/coleruns.jpg)

Video:
http://www.turbomustangs.com/techarticl ... vedyno.wmv (http://www.turbomustangs.com/techarticles/stevenew95/stevedyno.wmv)

[1gnasty]

well it looks like ill be runing 8 1600cc inj soon 8) :lol:

[CHRIS]

a lot of tunners haven't mastered pump gas yet and want to jump to E85? best of luck, cya in the part out section

[1gnasty]

a lot of tunners haven't mastered pump gas yet and want to jump to E85? best of luck, cya in the part out section
well e85 will be pump

[billios996]

just throw some Everclear in your tank, same difference, right :P

[bergen.DSM]

just throw some Everclear in your tank, same difference, right :P


i think they can do that in brazil. lol.

[atc250r]

a lot of tunners haven't mastered pump gas yet and want to jump to E85? best of luck, cya in the part out section

I'd say that 100+ octane will be MORE forgiving than the horse piss 93 we get now.

John