my turn: legal advice

[rotorocker]

Now I was looking for a place to live for next year with my 2 friends. I found a place we had all liked but the guy said he had other people looking at it and needed some kind of deposit (to show interest). So i went to the bank and got $1000 and came back and gave it to him. A couple days later my friend decides he doesnt want the place and so I call the landlord and tell him this because he was preparing the lease to be signed. He says that my deposit is nonrefundable because he had several people who he said wanted the place but he told them it was taken. I said to him can't you just call them back?(they call his cell phone, just like me) and he says he cant find their number. Now I am getting pissed. I put the money down on this place within 3 days of him posting the ad. I know for a fact he will find another person by june first #1, #2 I never signed a lease and I still have the receipt that he gave me for the deposit. #3, if he was so sure I was going to take the place, then why did he never take down the ad off the website. I talked to a couple people including my parents who said there is no reason I can't get my money back because I signed no contract and that if it went to court, I would be awarded my money back. I am 99% sure this is correct but just wondering if maybe any of you had have similar problems to this. I called him yesterday explaining nicely that my friend didnt want the place and I wanted my money back and that I would go to court if necessary. He said to give him a couple days and he was going to talk to his lawyer so I said fine. This has been buggin the shit out of me because this was loan money to pay rent as it is. I also feel that he has no reason to keep my money at all. Here is the receipt I got when I gave him the money.

http://www.eden.rutgers.edu/~kswank/CIMG0231.JPG

Here is the ad that I made sure the date was displayed yesterday (and its still up today)

http://www.eden.rutgers.edu/~kswank/housing%20ad.bmp

It is for 79 Plum street btw

I plan to call him back tomorrow and demand that if i dont have my money back by sunday night I am going to file paperwork against him

any thoughts? its such a shitty situation and I've never had a problem with landlords before(my current one actually wants me to stay and find more people but that isnt an option)

I dont know why he wrote the month and a half rent's security deposit and 1 months rent. There is no contract to base it off of.

[91trbo_mitsu]

I spoke to my cousins wife who works for attorney, about this, and you most definitely are entitled to full refund of your money. Especially since there was no claim of non-refundable deposit, and there was no contract stating same. If you know someone who is attorney all you need is their letterhead with statement of action to be taken, and you'd see that moron return that money back real fast. I'm going to assume you might be young fella, who he felt he could get over on.

[billios996]

The landlord can ask for a non-refundable application deposit, usually ~ $50 - $100, to avoid tire kickers. Sounds like you gave him $1000 in good faith towards a security deposit, which you are entitled to get back. Since you never signed a lease agreement, you have no obligation towards rent.

Did you sign any papers? Rental application? What does the receipt say the deposit is for (red X)? Did the advertisement require a non-refundable deposit (bad link)? Why did you give him $1000, did he request that amount?

Tell him to keep $50 for his troubles and ask for the rest back. If it works, it's cheaper than court.

Bill
Resident Slumlord

[rotorocker]

yeah I'm a younger fella, but I try and know what I am legally entitled to. I was just a little wary because of the wording of it, although I myself looked at it again for the first thing to see if anything said non-refundable. The only thing is, I know the guys name, but I dont know his address yet. He is moving into the downstairs of this place and is fixing it everyday so I can get his license plate number and I will know his future address (I live only a few blocks away right now). So if I was to file anything, I dont know know how I would go about getting his current info.

Thank you btw, there are a lot of slummy landlords in New Brunswick (at least in the college area off campus).

[rotorocker]

I didnt sign a contract or lease agreement. There was nowhere at all that it said anything was non-refundable. He asked for $1000 (my friend was going to give me $500 and split it with me) I dont know what you mean by red x? The picture I posted is the exact paper I have. I would prefer to give him no money since he is reluctant to give me mine, but I guess I'll see what he says tomorrow.

[twizzle]

damn, that is some shitty ass handwriting...

[rotorocker]

yeah the guy is puerto rican and kinda speaks like 90% english but he does really good house work which is why we wanted the place. I have a feeling he doesnt know what hes talking about. I hope he backs down and gives me my money so I dont have to take it to court.

[gtluke]

this is why its called a deposit. i don't think you have any right to get any of it back, thats the point of fronting money.

[rotorocker]

its a deposit to show interest that you want the place to hold it until you sign the lease. Thats what all the landlords do around here. It wasnt a "security deposit" beacuse I never signed a lease. I think you misunderstood that.

[gtluke]

if you can just get the money back, wtf is the point of giving it to him?

[rotorocker]

its just basically to show interest and to hold your spot for a couple of days because when a place is listed, tons of groups of kids come and a lot of them might say ill take it, and then never hear from them again, so this way it shows you have some interest. It sounds stupid but thats just the way it works here.

[gtluke]

to me a deposit means: you hold this in case i bail, if i do its your reward for me being a pain in the dick to you.

[rotorocker]

maybe you should go help the other guy out :roll:

[EclipseMblue]

or maybe u should go there kick his ass and ransack the place

[rotorocker]

nah, i prefer my money. I'll post what happens tomorrow. Everyone I talked to agrees that there is really no way I shouldnt be able to get the money back.(luke doesnt count) :)

[GSXGIRL]

well i manage several rental properties and do have a little info for you (that you may not like )

i have had people place deposits on apts and than for whatever reaon decide they dont want them - i have in maybe one case or two given a deposit back to be nice - but legally you do not have to !

i have also had a handful of people try to file cases in Union county courthouse to get the money back - and before it even went before the judge it went before the arbitrator and it was thrown out .
a deposit does hold the apt for you and is non refundabke if you back it which is why - you NEVER leave a large deposit on an apt until you are 100% sure . it is much easier to lose 100.00 than 1000.00

:wink:

[antlip]

hell if he doesnt give you the deposit back, live there for that month and have crazy ass parties, and dont pay him the rest :wink:

[rotorocker]

this was less than a week. there has to be some time frame in which you can get your money back. and also the receipt in which he gave me should say its non refundable.

antlip I never signed a contract, i cannot live there even if i wanted to..

[rsk_wannabe]

its a deposit to show interest that you want the place to hold it until you sign the lease. Thats what all the landlords do around here. It wasnt a "security deposit" beacuse I never signed a lease. I think you misunderstood that.

If it were a security deposit, I think you would have a better chance to get your money back. Security deposit usually covers damages caused by the tenant. Since you have never worked there and never caused any damage, you should be entitled to get your "security deposit" back.

If, on the other hand, the money is considered a good faith deposit to prevent the owner from renting to someone else, well then you are less likely to get your money back... at least not all of it.

Problem is, the receipt is not an agreement and you do not really have any terms which define what the money is for. Looking at the language, it says "to hold the apartment for June". But at the same time, it lists the $1K going to offset the 1.5 security and 1 mos rent. So who knows what it really means?

At the very least, I would write a formal letter which states that you are no longer interested in renting the apartment and would like to have your "security deposit" returned. Have it delivered to him personally. You have no address? Well, how about getting a friend to call him pretending to be interested in the apartment and then personally serving him with the letter. At the very least you will have a document which states that he was formally advised of your desire. And you also have your friend who can provide an affidavit which states that the landlord did receive the letter.

When you file a suit in small claims court, you can present the copy of the demand letter and the affidavit and claim that the money was given as a security deposit. Even if you do can not prove conclusively that the money should be returned in full, you at least have some proof that he knew he should have tried to re-rent the apartment as soon as you presented your letter. He has the obligation to mitigate his damages. Therefore, unless he can prove he tried to rent the apartment and just could not find a single tenant, he should be required to return the money.

I can not promise that any of this advice is going to get you your money back, but it is what I would do instead of waiting for him to have change of heart or actually believing he will ask his lawyer. The advice alone will cost his a few hundred dollars, so why should he bother? Without any suit hanging over his head, he has no motivation to waste good money on legal advice.

Not sure it is worth anything for you to go to a lawyer either, cause even if you win you lose. One thing I do know is simply relying on advice from your cousin's sister's husband's best friend's DSM-driving son about what to do will probably not get you your money back.

I still do not know why you would leave a $1K "deposit" unless you knew you would be taking the apartment. If you do not get the money back, consider it a cheap lesson on what to avoid in the future.

[rotorocker]

well then what youre saying is i can argue it either way. As far as I know you wouldnt or cant put a security deposit down for damages unless you have signed the contract. On the other hand, he does have reason to talk to his lawyer because on wednesday i asked for the money back and he said to give him a couple days to talk to his lawyer which i think he very well may have done. ugh..this is so fucking frustrating. I think I am going to call my lawyer tomorrow morning before I call this guy to know officially where I stand. The numbers he wrote on the paper screw everything up as to what it is considered. It is all in the wording.

Also, I dont have his current address but hes working on this house 6 hours or so a day so I know where I can find him generally and the fact that he will be moving into there on the first floor soon (June 1st-ish I am assuming)

thanks for the help. I think this is as far as I need this thread to go before I get some professional advice.

[helite99]

u shouldnt get ur money back.. this is why deposits are used... lets say u didnt leave money u say i want it.. he tells number2 its rented... number 2 finds a new place u back out.... the landlord is beat cuz number 2 found a new place... My parents and I rent out a few apartments, the only time we gave moneyt back is this type of situation is if the apartment was rented in the time span of the deal... lets say he rents it for june, with out missing any days in june then i would give it back, just because im not a dick. Keep in mind money for ads, time showing the apartment etc... If u get your money back ill be suprised.. Court wont do shit... hes a landlord he knows his shit. a lawyer letterhead wont work.... only thing that will get you your money back is someone else rents it amd hes a nice guy.. other wise your beat like a red-headed step child... and if this guy doens tknow shit about being a landlord let me know, i wanna make him a great deal to buy the brooklyn bridge...

[rsk_wannabe]

I meant to say you never "lived" there not "worked there, but I am sure you got the drift. As far as what others are saying, you can see why there would be some hardship in getting all of your money back. Hopefully your lawyer is also a friend who will be able to send out a quick letter as a courtesy for other business you provide. But any time a lawyer picks up a phone to take a call, make a call, or review a letter, draft a letter, or research a legal point you will be charged for his/her services. It does not take long for a lawyer to come up with a $1K bill (at $100-$200/hr) even for something as relatively simple as this.

As far as the people who rent apartments out and then feel that they have absolutely no obligation to pay back money, can't say I agree 100%....certainly in this case when the receipt wording is a bit ambiguous on what the deposit stood for. Besides "good will" sometimes dictates that return of money and decent treatment will get you more business. If not good will then at least good kharma. You mean to say any of you would keep $1K after a day or two of indecision? $100 maybe. $1K rises to the level of unconscionability. Buyer's remorse laws BTW are usually for 72 hours and apply to purchases (except real estate). Not sure if it applies to rentals.

Although a well worded agreement should have made it clear and many of the property managers will have agreements which are tailored to their needs, this one is not so clear cut. Even if you have a well defined document, I still think some business sense should prevail and the manager would be better off settling this dispute than to have to hire his lawyer to represent him.

That is why I say file the $75 small claims complaint and when he is served, negotiate for as much of your deposit as you can get. If you want to give him the benefit of the doubt though, do not file until he gets back to you. You can at least pick up the forms from small claims court and fill them out and have them with you when you discuss the matter with him further. If he tells you that he will not return the money, then whip out the completed form and tell him you have no other recourse then to file the suit. Even if you lose, you only wasted the filing fee and service of process costs, but at least you have the satisfaction of making him waste some time to appear in court. If he chooses not to appear, then you may actually get a default judgment. Good luck in collecting though. LOL.

Okay, I know you were not seeking additional info, so I will shut up now.

[rotorocker]

no its okay, thanks again. I do have a family friend who is my lawyer who I am talking to in about an hour or 2 so it doesnt cost me anything. This thread is done. Mod please lock it

[rotorocker]

Final update, I got the money back in full from the guy today. Turns out I have every right to get it back after talking to several attorney friends of the family. I had paperwork allready printed out, stamped and ready to go. Apparantly this guy's name came up several times in the last couple of years I found out. He wouldnt even have held a candle if it went to court and he realized it. :D Thank god this is over.

[91trbo_mitsu]

I rest My case,lol. Good Job bro.

[EclipseMblue]

well i manage several rental properties and do have a little info for you (that you may not like )

i have had people place deposits on apts and than for whatever reaon decide they dont want them - i have in maybe one case or two given a deposit back to be nice - but legally you do not have to !

i have also had a handful of people try to file cases in Union county courthouse to get the money back - and before it even went before the judge it went before the arbitrator and it was thrown out .
a deposit does hold the apt for you and is non refundabke if you back it which is why - you NEVER leave a large deposit on an apt until you are 100% sure . it is much easier to lose 100.00 than 1000.00

:wink:

sooooooooo sounds like u should try my plan :D