Welding a t3 flange to stock manifold..

[Adriano]

I keep on hearing that the bolt-on garrets/pte turbo have some big restriction due to their mitsu style ex-housing. I was wondering if welding a T3 flange on my turbo manifold would be a bad idea? Would it at least less restrictive than a mitsu bolt-on housing. The cheapest T3 manifold I found was like $475. Thanks

Adriano

[atc250r]

I don't think the restriction is as big as a lot of people make it sound. My bolt on and internally gated PTE just got me 115mph on pump gas and when I go back in a few weeks you can bet on my going 116 on pump and probably high 11's. It's not worth it to weld a different flange to a stock manifold because cast iron is not a good material to weld to. You have to get it super hot in an oven first in order for the welds to penetrate properly. Brent went like 125 with a similar set up and one of the GVR4 guys went 126 with it!

John

[Adriano]

I understand that the bolt-on will go fast too. But I was wondering how much power will I be losing by using a bolt-on housing at the same boost level. I'm either gonna get a sc-61 or a gt-35r. The cheapest T3 manifold I found was the SFP and Turbonectics. The reason I wanna know is if it's worth the extra $500-700 (manifold cost) to use a standard T3 housing.

Adriano

[gtluke]

i think nate is still selling his t-3 manifold. i think he's got that matching gt35r for sale now too.

and to answer your question, you can't weld steel to cast iron.
well you can, but don't expect it to last very well. especialy with the weight of the turbo hanging off of it.

[Bean]

The exhaust housing is a BIG restriction. Yes you can go fast on one. Plenty of people have. But you will make a lot more power with a full t3 setup. I've seen a -14 Ball Bearing turbo(GT30/40) in a mitsubishi housing make 380awhp at 30psi. I then changed it to a turbonetics manifold and a .63 exhaust housing. We put it back on the dyno, did another pull and the car made 500hp. Eventually it maxed out at 550awhp at 35psi. Bolt on turbo's work, but you will gain a lot more power when you do a full Garrett kit. Obviously that is an extreme case because the Ball Bearing turbo's don't make as much power in bolt on housings as the non-ballbearing turbo's. But in either case a full garrett setup will make a lot more power then a bolt on. You will loose a little spool up with a full garrett setup but will gain a lot more horsepower.

Bean

[Muggus]

I was probably planning on going with a 3065. Since thats a bolt on turbine housing, is it really gonna be restrictive or did they figure out a way around that. Plus everyone always says the equal lengths are a waste. How much of a difference would there be with say a 3065 w/ 2g manifold vs. a gt35r with t-3 manifold? I believe there pretty similar turbos correct?

[BigT]

the FP30 series turbo's have very advanced mitsu style exhaust housings. I wouldnt worry too much about it.

[Bean]

I should have said that the FP housing is the only bolt on housing that makes good power with the ball bearing turbos. It seems to make about the same as a .63 garrett.


Bean

[Nate Crisman]

I should have said that the FP housing is the only bolt on housing that makes good power with the ball bearing turbos. It seems to make about the same as a .63 garrett.


Bean

I was all up on "the PTE turbine housing is junk" bandwagon for a few weeks too untill I tested it myself.

Well, now I have to say that with my testing of the FP35 housing vs the PTE turbine housing on the same turbo, same car..FP was not worth much, maybe 20hp at 35psi.

I ran 126mph in 3420lb evo8 with the bolt on pte turbine housing at Etown on 50* ambient temp day at 32psi. AEM logger showed 494whp max

I put the FP housing on and ran at Island last friday. I got a best of 128.0mph at 35psi with 38-40* ambient temp. AEM logger showed 522whp max

That's about 28whp differance. Take in mind about 10* different ambient temp and 2+psi boost. My experience with this turbo shows about 10whp gain for every psi of boost increase so long as the tuning is good.

This was on an evo8 stock longblock and intake manifold, 272 cams, BR cast manifold, AEM EMS, fuel system is gtg, BR race fmic (24 x 12 x 4"), 2.5" ic pipes, tial bov, tial 44. All good parts on 116 racegas. Turbo is a Ball bearing GT35R. Same comp wheel as a SCM61.

The FP housing costs $590 wholesale with the neccesary Vband clamps and flanges, and the tial flange. + you have to make a custom downpipe becuase of the Vband. PTE's turbine housing is about $200 and works with standard "off the shelf" o2 housings.

IMHO, I think the PTE housing isn't much behind the FP in real power output for realistic enthusiasts. How many of you guys are realisticly going to run 35psi and push a GT35R turbo to it's max? That's when you see the gain, not at 20-22psi on the street.

[Nate Crisman]

I understand that the bolt-on will go fast too. But I was wondering how much power will I be losing by using a bolt-on housing at the same boost level. I'm either gonna get a sc-61 or a gt-35r. The cheapest T3 manifold I found was the SFP and Turbonectics. The reason I wanna know is if it's worth the extra $500-700 (manifold cost) to use a standard T3 housing.

Adriano

IMHO no. not for a streetcar. I picked up 5mph going to a shearer tube header, that is probobly about the best possible exhaust manifold setup available. Used with a .82AR t3 housing from precision on the same GT35R. I picked up 3-4mph going to the T3 header AND turbine housing with larger AR. Take that for what it's worth, as the AR of the turbine housing was significantly larger.

Cost/gain is pretty high though either way.
PTE internal gate on stock manifold costs you about $900

T3 turbo ($750) + external and dump ($300) + T3 manifold ($475) = $1525

Is the T3 setup going to give you 50% better performance. simply no.

[hindle]

And, oh by the way, you can fairly easily go 116mph or so on a stock turbo (14b) with a little giggle juice. (50shot)

[Bean]

A turbo like a 35R or 30/40 will make more power in a full garrett setup IMHO. I have seen it on the dyno and at the track. I am willing to bet that your EVO will pick close to 50hp from going to a full garrett setup. And as for spool, at the track it should have no problem. On the street it might spool 300-500rpm slower. I completely lift off the gas in between shifts and pull low 4.3 330's with a high 1.5 sixty foot. I am fully confident that on a low 1.5 sixty foot the car will go into the 4.2x range. It'a amazing how much faster your turbo spools without two giant boost leaks :) .



Bean

[Nate Crisman]

A turbo like a 35R or 30/40 will make more power in a full garrett setup IMHO. I have seen it on the dyno and at the track. I am willing to bet that your EVO will pick close to 50hp from going to a full garrett setup. And as for spool, at the track it should have no problem. On the street it might spool 300-500rpm slower. I completely lift off the gas in between shifts and pull low 4.3 330's with a high 1.5 sixty foot. I am fully confident that on a low 1.5 sixty foot the car will go into the 4.2x range. It'a amazing how much faster your turbo spools without two giant boost leaks :) .



Bean


Going from bolton to strait garret, yes I agree there should be a drastic differance at "racecar" boost/power levels when I did that on my talon, I got probobly 40whp. But for a streetcar that isn't a max effort setup, the additional cost compared to a bolt on turbo might overweigh the power gain. that's assuming there even is a power gain at lower boost/power levels.

My point was that my info tells me the FP bolt on housing is not THAT much better than the pte housing. I have no direct data on T3 for the evo.

[Adriano]

My plans are to reach something around 570-600whp on my 2G. How good of a manifold is the SFP or the Turbonectics Cast? Which one would be a better choice? I already have a Tial wastegate off my 2G manifold. I have a welder and tools to make a new downpipe/O2 housing the for the t3 turbos so that cuts cost a little. I have the sc-61 with a .63 ar on my integra with a cast manifold. That set-ups makes 486whp at 22lbs. That's one of the reasons why I'm leaning towards a sc-61 or gt35r. Thanks

Adriano

[1gnasty]

men if u going to do it do it big full-race manifold with a t3-t67
from full race :twisted: :twisted: :wink: