2g piston question

[Muggus]

Ok im rebuilding my motor now and dont really feel like dumping too much money into it right now. I was planning on going with a set of 2g pistons and 1g rods. I found what seems like a really good deal on ebay, the guy puts a new set on once the old one sells. My question is, first off, if i get these in standard size is there anything that would need to be done for them to be put in my block? The bore should be the same right? No honing should be envolved. Im guessing the rings would have to be gapped but thats no big deal. Im just wondering about the block. Also in the add he says most of the machining is done besides the pin ends. Would it really cost under $40 dollars to have that done or is that false. How much would it be? Thanks
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MITSUBISHI-4G63T-TDO5H-16G-PISTONS-JDM-1G-2G-14B-20G_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33623QQitemZ8016661 213QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

[BigT]

i would stay away from those. Dont waste money on buying new 2g pistons and then having to machine them. Just get a set of wiseco's or something.

[Monger]

good god does anyone think or read before posting anymore? you dont machine the pistons to fit the rods, you machine the rods to fit the pistons. And believe it or not, those are actually good pistons. I've used them on a few motors, and they are all holding up to some decent punishment. they are practically identical to stock, and are coated. did me right, and for that price you can't get hurt. they come with rings, which by themselves are usually over $100. stock 2G pistons are around $200, and I dont see any difference between the nippon racing pistons and the factory ones. My dad is a machinist, and he really didn't see any difference either. Oh yeah, you might as well carve some pistons out of wood and stick them in your motor if you dont plan on having them properly honed, the wont do as much damage and its cheaper. any piston you buy, and especially those nippon ones off ebay, are not exactly the same. the "standard" nippon pistons I bought were actually a cunthair oversized, as are most aftermarket sets because most people actually send their shit to a qualified machinist to match each piston to its bore and hone it accordingly. dont do it ghetto, if you disassemble everything and bring it to the machine shop, then put it back together yourself its really not expensive. assembly is where most machinists beat you in the head. I think I paid around $300 for a complete freshening of the bottom end. that included micropolishing the crank, line boring the crank end of the rods, decking the block flat, and honing the bore to the pistons that you brought him. last I heard, machining the rods for the 2G pistons cost around $150, not $40. my dad does them for $75. good luck, and dont be ghetto. been there done that. :lol:

[gtluke]

haha yeah phil!

i love the ricer mentality around here. everyone needs eagle rods (as if eagle were a quality manufacturer of rods :roll: ) and ross pistons yo!

everyone just wants a "built motor" so they can say that have one. they don't even know why they need one or would want one.

i've seen nate run 127mph on 2g pistons. i don't think any of you newbs will be going that fast ever so why on earth would you need ross pistons is beyond me.

i should keep my mouth shut cause nate sell a lot of those piston/rods :)
-luke-

[Muggus]

Thanks Phil for all the info, i didnt realize about all the pistons being slightly different. Im gonna try and get a set of those for a decent price and take your advice and bring everything to a machine shop to have the block worked right. Any shops in particular would you suggest? Does your father also do blocks or mostly just smaller things? Ill let you know about that rod machining, $75 sounds good to me. I was also confused when he said the pistons were machine, cause i swore it was the rods. Is it just were the pin goes through that needs to be machined or the side of the rod to fit inside the pistons also? If its the sides then i guess the pistons were machined already so the rods wil fit in and then all thats left is the pins holes on the rods.

[Monger]

the thing in that ad about the pistons being ready for 1G rods is bullshit, I actually emailed the guy about it a long time ago and he never replied. if you look at his other auctions, he actually sells alot of shit for alot of different cars, so I can imagine that he would'nt really know the technicalities of engine building on a 4g63. he's probably spewing some shit he got off someone who didn't know what they're talking about. none the less, they are still quality pistons and identical to normal 2G pistons, so the pin end bore will need to be opened up about 1mm and the sides narrowed on your 1G big rods. I pay anywhere from 110-130 for those pistons, which is dirt cheap considering they come with rings. I use Edwin Automotive in Parsippany, he's good, quick, and priced decent. dont let him assemble it for you though he'll beat you in the head on labor. bring the pistons and the block with you to whatever machine shop you use, that is the only right way to do it. when that's done, you can send me or bring me your pistons and rods and I'll have my pops machine and press them together. pops can do engines, but I think it would be frowned upon if he walked into work one day carrying a block. trust me I harass him all the time to do my engines and he tells me to fuck off. the old man dont want to carry heavy shit into work, so I make him do small stuff for me. the great part about it though is that he can doublecheck my work and whatever the machinist did, so he's not totally useless :lol: that's why I trust Edwin, pops said he's ok

[gtluke]

i hate machine work. it pisses me off to no end that you have to trust some monkey with your shit. and its the shit you don't want to go bad.
the guy in my hood is pretty good though. he doens't have that much equipment but so far he hasn't fucked anything up on me and he's cheap. like really cheap.
like he charged me i think $50 to put my pistons on my rods. mind you that i have 8 pistons.
and my gvr4 head he did the deck and check and replace the valve seals and everything and it was $75
but he gives me rediculous deals cause i've been with him for so many years and i always come with cash in hand and never complain about any pric (i don't have a reason to)

but anything bigger and he has to send it out to a large place, like when my head had to be welded and a new valve seat installed. it came out perfect and was way cheaper than i thought.

he's a good guy. he just needs a bigger shop with more tools.

[atc250r]

Phil couldn't be any more RIGHT in what he is saying. IMHO it's stupid to go through the trouble of rebuilding a motor, especially a high performance one, and not have the cylinders bored and honed to match the new pistons. Order some .020 over pistons and give them to the machinist along with the block so he can make everything fit perfectly.

John

[BigT]

The only reason i stated not to go with these pistons is because the seller obviously has no clue what he's selling. Stating that they are good for 450hp is also misleading as we all know the stock pistons can handle more power then that. And luke, no one ever mentioned eagle rods in this thread. I only stated to get wiseco's because of having to purchase these pistons and on top of machining his rods. Why not just spend a little more on a set of wiseco pistons. At least this way he has a choice of compression and a little better piston if he ever decides to "put it in full affect". Also, they will drop right in. I do completely agree with going .020 over. There is no point in rebuilding if you wont have a fresh cylinder wall.

[gtluke]

i'd use 2g pistons over wiseco's even if money weren't in the picture.
most of us are using our cars for more than track duty, and will appreciate the motor staying together for a few seasons. 2g pisons have this designed into them where wiseco's do not.

i just shoved standard bore $125 a set pistons in my block last year, no bore, no hone and it runs 10's so hmmmm :)

i don't suggest that though. i do my own work so when it blows up i'm out $125 and like $100 in gaskets and machineing so its really not a big deal.

i can't wait to get my raise and bonuses.
dart block (or world? or the new FRP clevor) plus some custom JE's or something, and a set of manly rods. yummy.

i might actually go back to a 5.0 for the more room and less weight.

when i built this motor my choices were to either spend an ASSLOAD on a good 5.0 block that didn't break, or go with a stock 5.8 block that does not have the cracking issues.

[Muggus]

Well im still deciding, i might just buy dre's old block with the dope ass eagle/ross combo yo. But for real it would probably come out to the same price for the 2g pistons after machining and everything is all said and done. Block is already .020 over and honed to fit the pistons obviosly, just needs to be reassembled. Only thing about it is that its had a lot of power pushed through it already. However he obviosly had it tuned right so i highly doubt any damage was ever done. Then i can sell mine old 6-bolt and it would probably be cheaper then the 2g setup.

[LilBeanTSI]

When I melted a piston I was gonna buy Dre's motor too but went with 2g pistons on 1g rods instead. Gabe went 11.3 on a bone stock motor with 1g pistons. Don't get forged pistons unless you plan on making the power to warrent them.

[Muggus]

Yeah alot of people have gone fst with stock motors, but for the price it will cost close to the same as the used built motor. Its basically fresh rebuild with new pistons vs. used motor with race internals. Im most likely going with the 3065, aem, maybe built head, etc. My goal is around a 10.8@130.And before anyone (luke) says that i dont need that big of a turbo and that other people have gone 10's on 16g's, thats my goal for now. Once that it met it might go even higher, who knows. Im guessing i would need about 500-550hp to accomplish that and im not sure if the 2g setup will handle that for long, especially if i try and go faster. I was only looking for a cheap setup for now and then build the motor on the side once i really needed it. But now that phil told me about the absolute need to have the block machined and what not the price might be too high.

[gtluke]

haha nah i think the 3065 is okay. it just when people put on gt35's and t66's and crap that make me laugh.

i highly suggest you call nate and get a turbo through him, and spend the extra money on whatever he tells you. the man has had more turbo's on his car then there are big turbo's on this whole forum.

i know nate and bean both suggest a real t-3 setup and not a bolt-on mitsu flange housing for trying to get into the 10's because both of them have had great success upgrading to a larger turbine housing. the largest bolt on housing isn't really 10 second power.
well it can be, but like you said people have gone 10's on a 16g.

call nate, he knows more than i do but he sucks at posting tech

[Muggus]

Well iv been thinking about it for a while, i was gonna go with the rs60t just because its a pretty nasty street turbo and dam cheap. But i know im just gonna want to go bigger eventually cause like i said i might as well go big now so i dont regret it later. Bean also said that the fp30 series turbo are a more advanced bolt on housing and its not really that restrictive. Plus being that its not the biggest turbo and BB its still fairly streetable. I actually just checked the dsmtimes list and a real lot of 9-10 cars are running the 3065. Garrets are great setups but i just dont feel like spending a ton on a tubular manifold and having to modify the downpipe. I really like the v-clamp design for the o2 and wastegate also.

[gtluke]

you can always use the turbonetics cast manifold like bean had forever. and nate was just selling the o2 housing to work with a stock downpipe.
something on his setup had v-bands.
v-bands are tits, too bad they are freakin expensive. i have a few on my car.

[Muggus]

Eh well see, im trying to get a used 3065 setup now. If that doesnt work out then my options are still open. But im still pretty sure thats gonna be the turbo. That turbo is just narsty, i have faith in FP, they seem to be doing something right.
"Having a modern cartridge with ball bearings and super efficient blades isn't going to do anyone any good if it doesn't bolt up. The existing 7cm^2 and 8cm^2 Mitsubishi turbine housings were not only too small for the GT30 turbine wheel, but mass production design compromises such as an offset non-symetric volute and poor material made them very undesirable. It was decided to abandon attempts to force them to work. Design work started on a totally new turbine housing. A truly perfect turbine housing worthy of the GT30 CHRA.

The result of the research is our race inspired totally symmetric volute scaled to perfectly match the dimensions of the GT30 turbine wheel. This larger housing incorporates a built in wastegate mount which offers simplified installation without compromising boost control like inferior internal wastegates. Boost pressure can be set as low as 14psi without ANY boost creeping at higher RPM.
Another feature of the housing is the turbine inlet. 60mm diameter and as smooth as an extrude honed housing throughout the entire volute, the FP30 housing does not require a $95 port job in order for it to perform properly! There has never been a housing like this available to the public."

[Muggus]

The only wierd thing is how it only has a 6cm inlet, im better off with a non-ported 2g maniold and just remove the step. Hmm, they must have a good design to flow that much.

[shane]

adam (super16g on the board) has a 3065 and seems to like it. i rode in his care and the turbo spools very well and has NICE power on top of it. but this is the kind of turbo that you want to run 30+ psi and race gas on.

[Bean]

The FP3065 is a great turbo. Either port the hell out of your 2g manifold or buy and EVO 3 manifold and take the step out of it. This setup has been proven to run 10's@130+ and even in the 9's. The RS65 will get you into the 10's but it will take a nice hook and 30+psi of boost. The FP3065 will make 550-580whp but it needs 35psi to do it. Just make sure that your fuel system is up to the task. One Walboro with -6 line should support close to 500hp. If you plan on making more than that I suggest either two walboro's or a Bosch pump, paxton, etc. MOST people don't need aftermaket rods/pistons but if you plan on running an FP3065 or a turbo near its size and you want to run some big boost then get the ross/eagle combo. Nate went almost 150mph on that combo. It works and its cheaper then a ross/crower or ross/pauter setup. If you plan on only making 450-475WHP then you can stick with the 95 piston combo. PLENTY of guys have run that into the 10's. It works also and is reliable when tuned correctly.

Hey Luke,
I think between Nate and I we have had around 20 turbo's on our cars. :lol:

[gtluke]

i'm catching up to you guys, i just put the 6th turbo on my galant. 5 14b's and a 13g.
haha

oh god thats sad
-luke-

[Nate Crisman]

The FP3065 is a great turbo. Either port the hell out of your 2g manifold or buy and EVO 3 manifold and take the step out of it. This setup has been proven to run 10's@130+ and even in the 9's. The RS65 will get you into the 10's but it will take a nice hook and 30+psi of boost. The FP3065 will make 550-580whp but it needs 35psi to do it. Just make sure that your fuel system is up to the task. One Walboro with -6 line should support close to 500hp. If you plan on making more than that I suggest either two walboro's or a Bosch pump, paxton, etc. MOST people don't need aftermaket rods/pistons but if you plan on running an FP3065 or a turbo near its size and you want to run some big boost then get the ross/eagle combo. Nate went almost 150mph on that combo. It works and its cheaper then a ross/crower or ross/pauter setup. If you plan on only making 450-475WHP then you can stick with the 95 piston combo. PLENTY of guys have run that into the 10's. It works also and is reliable when tuned correctly.

Hey Luke,
I think between Nate and I we have had around 20 turbo's on our cars. :lol:

My talon has had:
3 different 14b's all 3 out of sequence, not back to back
2 different 16G back to back. one was the "slut 16G" ~2001?
1 20G Tdo5H
2 50 trims (one stage 3, one stage 5)
1 60-1 T3T4
1 GT35R

That's 10, Im halfway there. probobly be on 14B #4 or 16G #3 in the spring.

My evo went in this order as far as turbo swaps:
Stock turbo
BR440
Stock turbo
SCM61
GT35R PTE
GR35R FP
stock turbo

As for the ross/eagle motor. When I pulled the motor, pistons were all good other than #1. #1 was scuffed from bearing material getting up in the cyl wall. #1 rod bearing was spun and completely F'd. 2,3,4 rod bearings were right about to spin, all completely smashed and flattened. All 4 main bearing looked absolutly mint, so it wasn't an oil issue. I think at that power level/rpm maybe the rod bearings are weaker than the rod in the long run :?: Going to see about polishing up that one piston, buying one eagle rod, and tossing another crank in that block and putting it back together for another year of nitrous ingesting abuse

[Muggus]

The FP3065 is a great turbo. Either port the hell out of your 2g manifold or buy and EVO 3 manifold and take the step out of it.

I dont get it though, FP says the exhaust housing inlet it 60mm and unless im completely retarded thats 6cm which is the same as a stock 2g manifold right? Wouldnt porting it out to 7cm+ cause restriction when it reaches the turbo.

[atc250r]

A 6cm housing is not 6cm across, that would be 2.5 inches which the mainfold's outlet certainly is not. I thought that maybe they measure the area of the circle that the outlet is but then 6cm would only have a diameter of 2.75cm or a little over an inch. Someone has to know where they get the 6cm figure from.

John

[gtluke]

nate you forgot the 25g

[91tsiguy]

nate you forgot the 25g
I was going to say that too. Damnit.

Can't forget the current shop rat wheel powered turbo in there now. (We keep finding big pieces of food hidden behind our couch that was previously in the garbage :-\ )

[Muggus]

Oh yeah im an idiot, 6cm is tiny.