Car won't start: Cam. Pos.Sens. 180* out of phase?

[blcknspo0ln]

Just got the timing belt on and went to crank her over.. i can hear the starter go at it and the car just putts for a second and won't crank over. I'm going to look more into tomorrow, but I figure Id throw this out to anyone that may know the answer..

If the cylinder inside the CAS was 180* out of phase, would the car not start? I know it has to do with firing order, but would it not start the car? I would imagine it would just make the car run like shit.

Also, if the crank position sensor was not funcitoning properly, would it also cause the car not to start?

*edit* I also pulled cyl 4 and 3 spark plugs and looked at the cylinder and it was wet with fuel (could also smell the gas on the plug). that leads me to believe it is a spark problem. a compression test is pending tomorrow and no, I did not have time to recheck my timing marks (all of that will be done tomorrow).

[talondsm18g]

The cams turn 2x for ever full crank revolution. So it doesn't matter. Is your coil and transistor pack plugged in? Did you set the timing correctly?

[gtluke]

The cams turn 2x for ever full crank revolution. So it doesn't matter. Is your coil and transistor pack plugged in? Did you set the timing correctly?

wrong

it does matter

if it is 180deg out the car usually starts, but runs like total ass

[hindle]

I've had my CAS 180 out (on a 1g) and had no problems. Hell, my fastest time ever on my FWD was with it 180 out.

[91tsiguy]

To double check and be safe, put your motor at top dead center with the cam gear keys at 12 o'clock. Pull off the cam angle sensor, line up the two little dots you'll see, one on the housing, the other on the piece that inserts into the end of the cam.

If it still doesn't want to kick over after that you'll need to have someone make small adjustments to the clocking of the CAS or you may have other problems.

[gtluke]

I've had my CAS 180 out (on a 1g) and had no problems. Hell, my fastest time ever on my FWD was with it 180 out.

you probably had your firing order backwards at the same time. having the CAS backwards is exactly the same as having your coils reversed. sometimes when a car is together and stock and i have to take things apart to flip it back, i just move the plug wires from the back coil to the front.

[hindle]

you probably had your firing order backwards at the same time. having the CAS backwards is exactly the same as having your coils reversed. sometimes when a car is together and stock and i have to take things apart to flip it back, i just move the plug wires from the back coil to the front.

Wrong. Have you ever opened up a CAS? Then you'd know why it works 180 out.

[gtluke]

its not the CAS, its that mitsu was cheap and runs wasted spark to save 2 coils.
and it doesn't "work" that way. it makes your firing order backwards.

don't forget there are 2 types of CAS's, 2 totally different setups

[hindle]

Sigh. On a 1g (90 and 91-94 included), having the CAS 180 out of rotation works. I specified a 1g earlier in this thread. If we're talking about a 2g, then I don't know.

[Black99X]

Tommy- Guess you need the Compression tested back huh! :lol:

[gtluke]

Sigh. On a 1g (90 and 91-94 included), having the CAS 180 out of rotation works. I specified a 1g earlier in this thread. If we're talking about a 2g, then I don't know.

if you are talking 2g, than there are 3 types.
you are

you are grossly mistaken. 180out will start the car but it will NOT "work"

for 1g t/e/l's there are:
1990 optical
91-92 optical
93-94 hall effect

[blcknspo0ln]

okay.. matt (mns95gst) and I went to work to diagnose things on the car.

lined up everything at TDC, all timing marks were still correct.

compression yielded 165-165-165-160

pulled spark plugs and they had fuel all over them

did a spark test (via removing a wire and leaving the plug in. Then went and put a new plug into the wire boot and tried turning it over and holding the plug 1/2" from the intake manifold/valve cover. NO SPARK.

I went ahead and removed the UICP so I could have a little more room to see. all of the plugs on the harness are good to go, MAF is plugged in, nothing loose ..

the one thing that concerns me is that the actual housing for the harness (for camshaft position sensor) is broken. I don't know if that will affect it's performance or not.

also, did anyone have any comments on the crankshaft position sensor? if that was defective, would the car start or no?

oh, this is on a 1997 talon tsi btw... we have that set CAS deal... and there is no "dot" or marking on the cylinder or the housing for me to match it up to..

[blcknspo0ln]

Tommy- Guess you need the Compression tested back huh! :lol:

haha yea cory.. we went to pick it up from your house earlier today. matt told me how you did your compression test.. LMAO.. go redo it!

[Black99X]

Why should I redo???

[97gsxminus1bolt]

You still have my compression tester?

[blcknspo0ln]

yea man.. i keep telling you that :wink:

whenever you want to meet up.. give me a call 908-528-4067

[blcknspo0ln]

Why should I redo???

ask matt lol

[Monger]

hell I've never seen a cas work 180 out, but why the hell would anyone put it in backwards? HAHA :lol:

[blcknspo0ln]

the shop that cleaned up my head decided to clean the CAS too :x so all of the paint that was there to help me put it incorrectly was cleaned off..

I was actually thinking, even if the CAS was 180 out.. it would still produce spark, just in a reverse order.. right?

I can't understand how I get no spark at all

[blcknspo0ln]

did some more research and found a trick to see if the ECU turns out.. and it does..

oh and here's a good one, my fuel pressure solenoid mysteriously found its way to my parts box during the removal and reinstallation of my head :roll: now, would THAT cause it to not start?

i'm trying to throw as much info out there as possible.. someone please help me :oops:

[gtluke]

nah you don't need a fuel pressure solinoid. i havn't had one in years.

your CAS is probably poopy

[blcknspo0ln]

I'm thinking, there are only a couple different parts to the CAS..

the CAS housing, the metal cylinder, and the camshaft position sensor. Could I just buy a new sensor and call it a day? or is something else in teh CAS that i'm not aware of?

[gtluke]

did you figure this out yet?
at least hindle didn't spell anything wrong while posting incorrect tech
[/i]

[h2osk8er97]

I had a bad crank position sensor and it causes the car to have no spark. I replaced the sensor with one from NAPA and it fired right up. However, my sensor was physically broken, so maybe you want to check the connection. But if you have to take off the crank pulley and timing belt cover I guess you might as well just have a sensor for back up. Hope this helps 8)

[blcknspo0ln]

hmm didn't even know NAPA carried shit like that..

I just got back from vacation so I haven't had a chance to order the part. Hopefully I'll have the new sensor in by friday and see if she fires up

[h2osk8er97]

The sensor is made by Echelin (sp?) and was a special order. I think i had to wait about two days for it.